I've never seen a full side-by-side comparison of Jarden Metal Lids and Tattler Reusable Canning lids, so I thought I'd do a little digging and see what I could find. I know a lot of folks swear by one or the other, or use both, depending on what they're canning (for instance, they may not use Tattlers on jars they plan to give as gifts).
Concerns about Tattler Reusable Canning Lids
After reading rave reviews online about Tattler reusable canning lids, I took the plunge and ordered some with friends. My results were not as good as I had hoped. I noticed a significantly higher failure rate than standard canning lids, both during and after processing. The lids are also easily damaged if they are improperly removed from the jar (say by an eager little boy who is hungry for peaches).
Tattler lid damaged by over-eager eater
The Natural Canning Resource Book details further concerns:
“Tattler lids are composed of polyoxymethlylen copolymer, an acetal copolymer. Copolymers are linked plastics which contain two or more ingredients. … (The author's father, a chemist) noted that the copolymer is made from a trimer of formaldehyde called trioxane and other compound variations. Formaldehyde is a highly-toxic substance long known to be carcinogenic. Some of the secondary additives are also potentially dangerous to human health and the environment.”
The Home Canning Resource Book also states that, “The National Center for Home Food Preservation has also documented higher levels of seal failure rates on Tattler lids than Jarden two piece lids.” If you have further questions, I suggest you contact the author directly at her website.
The book continues to give detailed evidence of uncombined formaldehyde in the lids. **Note – there has been some discussion about this on online forums since this post went live, noting that the temperatures involved in canning are not high enough to release the formaldehyde from its bonds in the copolymer. This is accurate.
The Tattler lids should not be used with alcohol, strong acids, chlorine or strong sunlight, which will break down the plastic of the lids. I won't be ordering more of these lids.
Comparison of Jarden Metal Lids and Tattler Reusable Canning Lids
Most Tattler reviews I've seen give little or no technical or background information, and the metal lids have been around so long no one “reviews” them anymore, although there has been a lot of buzz in recent years about their BPA content. I sent email questionnaires to both Jarden and Tattler. Jarden representative Judy L. Harrold, Manager, Consumer Affairs, responded quickly, and we also arranged a phone interview. Tattler declined to comment, so I pieced together information from their website and other online sources (as noted). Here are the results. My questions are in bold, responses in plain text.
Jarden Metal Lids
(Ball and Kerr brands, as well as others worldwide)
Website: Jarden Home Brands
MSDS (Materials Data Safety Sheet) on all lid materials
MSDS is not required by regulatory authorities for this product. Jarden Home Brands manufacturers home canning lids using tin coated steel with an epoxy coating (to prevent corrosion) and plastisol sealant.
How long have the lids been manufactured? How long has your company been in business? Where are your lids manufactured?
Jars and lids have been manufactured under the Ball brand name since 1885. Today, the closures are manufactured by Jarden Home Brands marketer of Ball branded products. The two-piece caps using plastisol compound were introduced in the 1960’s and replaced two-piece caps having a latex sealing compound. (View the Jarden Timeline.) We’re very proud to say that all of our lids and bands are produced in our plant in Muncie, IN.
Have there been any time periods where lid production did not take place or was greatly reduced? (I’ve heard there was a metal lid shortage in the 70’s.)
The company always produced home canning lids to accompany the jars and as replacements parts. During the 1970’s there was an increased demand for home canning lids that caused the company (then Ball Corporation) to add production shifts. The consumer demand was so high during this period that many startup companies produced home canning lids. The majority (if not all) of those businesses are no longer in operation.
How much BPA is in the lids? How does this compare to other sources of BPA?
Judy and I discussed this over the phone. She told me that a 150 pound adult would need to consume 2400-4300 jars of home canned food each day to reach the maximum daily safety limit for BPA exposure. No specific amount was given.
Will you be introducing a BPA-free lid?
Again, we discussed this over the phone. While Jarden is working on BPA free alternatives, they want to be absolutely certain that any changes made result in a product that works as well as current products, and does not introduce new concerns. Further discussion of BPA below.
UPDATE November 2013: Jarden Lids are now BPA free.
How many lids have you sold?
It’s difficult to determine the number of lids sold over the years, but we produce about 3 million lids per day during peak production months.
What safety testing has been done on the lids?
In-house scientists conduct ongoing quality and performance tests on bands and lids. They audit the integrity of in-coming raw materials, monitor production runs against design specifications, and they conduct pack tests on the closures for shelf-life tests.
Ball brand and Kerr brand closures have been used by the USDA and affiliated universities when conducting heat-penetration tests in the development of safe home canning guidelines. Heat penetration tests were conducted by Jarden Home Brands working with university and independent authorities for the development of safe home canning recipes. Our closures stand up to this stringent testing protocol.
What support services do you offer to home canners?
Jarden Home Brands offers direct to consumer support services via 800#, email, Facebook, and written correspondence. We have an informative website – www.freshpreserving.com – with step-by-step videos, FAQs, and recipes to help the home canner experience successful results with each canning project. Our Consumer Affairs staff has successfully completed the Better Process control School, works closely with our in-house scientists, and has nearly 50 years experience behind them.
Any other information on the lids or the company that you feel is important for consumers to know.
Jarden Home Brands understands that home canned food safety goes hand-in-hand with quality jars, lids and bands. That’s why we continue to build on more than one-hundred years of experience through research, testing, and education.
More information on BPA in Canning Lids and Other Sources of BPA
In the book Slow Death by Rubber Duck, they mention that 93% of Americans tested showed measurable amounts of BPA (bisphenol A) in their blood samples. They cited numerous studies that linked BPA exposure to negative health effects, primarily as an endocrine disruptor. One of the authors did extreme things (drinking coffee microwaved in a plastic baby bottle) to boost the BPA level in his blood. He succeeded. It dropped back down after the test, but didn't go to zero.
It turns out that there is BPA in many, many everyday products – CDs and DVDs, water bottles, drinking glasses, kitchen appliance and utensils, eyeglass lenses, bottled water carboys, helmet visors, plastic toys, computers and other electronics, dental coatings, wire coatings, epoxy coatings, can lining (which most of us have heard of), receipts, recycled paper – including pizza boxes – basically, much of what we are in contact with daily in the modern world.
Frankly, I don't know how bad BPA really is. I do know that scaremongering sells. The EPA has come out saying risk from BPA is minimal to non-existent, but sometimes the EPA is less than reliable. The EU tends to be a lot more uptight about such things, and even they're saying it's not a problem. I'll skip microwaving my coffee (or anything else) in plastic (I don't use the microwave much anyway), but for the moment, I'm not completely freaked out about it.
BPA related links
Here are some more BPA related links
New independent study by EPA refutes BPA risk
How America Become Obsessed with BPA
Tattler Reusable Canning Lids
As I mentioned above, I sent the same survey to Tattler, and they declined to respond, so the following is information I've assembled from their site and other online sources.
When were Tattler Lids first created?
Tattler Reusable Canning lids were invented by Loren Stieg, a tool and die maker, in 1976 during a shortage of metal canning lids.
The Daily Sentinel shares the story:
The lids, designed for water-bath or pressure canning, are made of an injection-molded, food-grade plastic and fitted to a nitrile rubber gasket.
The name “Tattler” came about because Loren Stieg wanted them to make a sound when they sealed.
“They were going to make a noise and ‘tattle’ on themselves when they sealed,” Stieg said. “It just didn’t work that way and the design changed, but the name stayed.”
The Stiegs didn’t do much with the lids for 25 years, until eBay and the Internet provided a willing market, which coincided with a burst of new interest in home canning and preserving. Brad Stieg, who has a background working in materials management and logistics, decided to help his dad sell some of the inventory.
As all the lids manufactured in the 1970s started to sell out, Stieg knew he needed to start production again. The father and son incorporated in 2010 to resurrect the business.
Stieg bought an injection-molding machine and started manufacturing at his rented space at the Grand Junction Business Incubator. The lids sold four times their projected demand in 2010.
In 2011, sales quadrupled over the previous year’s sales. And this year, Stieg expects to at least double sales from last year.
They are now manufactured in Colorado and Michigan.
What are Tattler lids made of?
From the Tattler website: We utilize an FDA and USDA approved, food grade product known as Polyoxymethylene Copolymer (POM) or Acetal Copolymer.
The rubber rings (gaskets) are made from a food grade nitrile rubber and contain no latex.
TATTLER Reusable Plastic Canning Lids are manufactured using a plastic compound that is safe for direct contact with food products.We utilize an FDA and USDA approved, food grade product known as Polyoxymethylene Copolymer (POM) or Acetal Copolymer.
The product we use is compliant with applicable FDA regulations for food contact subject to the limitations listed below.(Please visit the Tattler website for more information.)
Have there been any time periods where lid production did not take place or was greatly reduced?
No information available on dates or amount of product produced, although production has been increasing, as cited above.
How much free (unbonded) formaldehyde is typically found in the plastic of the lids (if this has been tested).
From the Tattler website:
Many questions have been asked about the existence of formaldehyde in Acetal Copolymer. While it is true formaldehyde is present in trace amounts, research proves it is only released at very high temperatures, well above any temperatures found in home food canning. Here are the facts.
Heating our brand of acetal copolymer above 460 degrees F (238 C) should be avoided. At these temperatures, formaldehyde, a colorless and irritating gas that can be harmful in high concentrations, is generated.
*Note: When I originally posted about uncombined formaldehyde in the Tattler lids after reading The Natural Canning Resource Book, it prompted a visit by Brad Stieg of Tattler, who shared the above information from the Tattler site.
Here is my concern:
When you have two ingredients going into a chemical reaction, A+ B=C. Unless the amounts of A and B equal exactly, down to the molecule, some of A or B will be left in the final product. Those “leftovers” are what could shed into your food with normal canning use – not the A and B that have already been converted to C. Risks should be minimal to the home canner, as the food within the jar is not in constant contact with the lid, but they do exist. I know many people are trying to reduce their use of plastic, or have immune systems that are already compromised, so I felt this was relevant.
Further, even if exposure levels to the consumer are low, those who work in the plants where these products are manufactured have much higher exposure rates, with accompanying health risks. For instance, here’s a formaldehyde toxicity study – http://oehha.ca.gov/air/chronic_rels/pdf/50000.pdf
“The binding of formaldehyde to endogenous proteins creates haptens that can elicit an immune response. Chronic exposure to formaldehyde has been associated with immunological hypersensitivity as measured by elevated circulating IgG and IgE autoantibodies to human serum albumin (Thrasher et al., 1987). In addition, a decrease in the proportion of T-cells was observed, indicating altered immunity. Thrasher et al. (1990) later found that long-term exposure to formaldehyde was associated with autoantibodies, immune activation, and formaldehyde-albumin adducts in patients occupationally exposed, or residents of mobile homes or of homes containing particleboard sub-flooring. The authors suggest that the hypersensitivity induced by formaldehyde may account for a mechanism for asthma and other health complaints associated with formaldehyde exposure.”
Among the occupations listed in the study were “chemical workers”. It doesn’t say specifically say that the people in the study were in any way responsible for your lids, only that they worked in the chemical industry and were exposed to formaldehyde.
What safety testing has been done on the lids?
From the Tattler FAQ page:
We have received letters from customers stating they have used the lids and rings for as many as 20 years until the rings finally stretched beyond use. That anecdotal evidence is backed up by our own research. Last summer (2010) we conducted a test using 14 lids and rings. The test materials were product we found in storage since 1976. They were used in both water bath and pressure canning tests over several weeks, during which time all were reused 14 times without failure. The 14th round was conducted on food items, most of which remain in storage awaiting use. We ended the test due to time constraints. When cared for properly, many years of use may be expected.
Positive online reviews of Tattler lids:
Reviews and Blogs about Tattler Reusable Lids – over 20 online reviews from the Tattler website
Home Canning BPA Free by A Gardener's Table
Negative online reviews of Tattler Lids:
Elizabeth L. Andress – Professor and Extension Food Safety Specialist –
The University of Georgia – Home Food Preservation Update notes that there may be quality issues due to retained oxygen in headspace, and there is no documentation of seal rate versus seal failures, vacuum levels obtained or maintenance of vacuum during storage.
Not Happy with Tattler Lids Discussion on Homesteading Today Forums
Concerns about Tattler Lids and Fermented Foods at Pickle Me Too
Tattler Lids Review at Hounds in the Kitchen – Awkward to Use, More Failures
Canning Across America – FAQ – Why they don't recommend Tattler Lids
What support services do you offer to home canners? Any other information on the lids or the company that you feel is important for consumers to know.
Tattler has a blog and a facebook page. Brad also makes appearances at trade shows and other events.
Comparison of Jarden Metal Lids and Tattler Reusable Canning Lids- Which is Better?
For my part, I prefer the metal lids, but many people prefer the Tattlers (see long list of glowing reviews). I have had higher failure rates, although that could be linked to user error. I like that the metal lids are basically “idiot proof”, if you will. There is no doubt about a failed seal, they are easy to use, I don't have to worry about the kids damaging the lids when they are pried off.
If I've got to get out the door when a pressure canner is still waiting to cool down, I can rush off without having to worry about failed seals. (With the Tattlers, you need to tighten the rings as soon as you can open the canner, so you must wait while it cools or risk seal failure.)
I appreciate the time, money and effort spent by Jarden Home Brands on testing product safety, their many years of experience and their dedicated customer support team.
My biggest concern with the Tattlers is the one mentioned by Elizabeth L. Andress – Professor and Extension Food Safety Specialist – The University of Georgia, and also expressed by another Master Canner I know – oxygen retained in the headspace.
Because the lid is largely inflexible, and the final seal comes after the processing as a result of tightening the band, it's tough to guarantee that all oxygen has been flushed out of the headspace. This is guaranteed with the metal lids, as the vacuum itself is what creates the seal. This could create conditions where it is possible for nasty microorganisms to grow. As a precaution, I'll stick with using my current Tattler lids for processing high acid foods (like fruit).
Neither lid option is perfect, but other options are expensive and have some concerns of their own. I would say that either lid paired with your home canned goods is a far better choice than most of what's on grocery store shelves.
SB Canning says
July 28, 2012 at 3:36 pmThanks Laurie for all the research and great information. Hopefully once this post goes viral someone at Tattler will get off there butts and call you to comment on the post or give you the answers to the questions you requested. I will help you out by spreading the information! Thanks SB Canning!
CommonSenseIdea says
July 29, 2012 at 11:07 amThanks, SB.
Taneil Lawton says
July 28, 2012 at 5:55 pmOn thing I found with the Tattler lids and rubber rings is that a section of the rubber ring can fall inside the jar thus not allowing it to seal.
CommonSenseIdea says
July 29, 2012 at 11:08 amThanks for your input, Taneil. I also found the rubber rings somewhat difficult to clean after using them for sticky foods (like peaches). The peach goo got in all the little crannies, even with soaking and scrubbing with an old toothbrush.
Darlene says
July 29, 2012 at 9:33 amThank you for this post!! I wondered about this,so I am grateful for the time and effort you put in to find this information. I appreciate it!
CommonSenseIdea says
July 29, 2012 at 11:09 amYou’re welcome, Darlene.
Lisa Lynn says
July 29, 2012 at 5:19 pmGreat post! I’m glad to hear that even the Europeans don’t think that the BPA is a problem. I’ve been a bit worried about it and went ahead and purchased some of the Tattler lids (quite a few, actually). I have been canning for years and followed the instructions to the t, and had pretty crummy results. I’ve had to throw out a lot of food that I canned with those. So I leave them sitting on my self now. My thought is that in the case that other lids are not available for some reason I will try them again.
Thanks again!
CommonSenseIdea says
July 29, 2012 at 8:02 pmThank you for sharing your experience, Lisa.
Robin says
July 29, 2012 at 11:10 pmWOW! Amazing amount of much-needed facts! Thanks for posting. You obviously did your homework!
CommonSenseIdea says
July 29, 2012 at 11:35 pmThanks for your words of support, Robin.
Rebecca says
July 30, 2012 at 1:13 pmEven better, switch over to Weck canning jars, they are a European brand, with glass lids! Pricey, but great quality.
CommonSenseIdea says
July 30, 2012 at 1:17 pmRebecca – the Weck’s are great as far as toxins go, but face the same issues with a potentially incomplete vacuum as the Tattlers. Still, I’d like to try them. Many of their jars are just plain beautiful.
Chrissy says
July 30, 2012 at 6:43 pmThanks for the great post Laurie! I appreciate the facts about both types put there together. One of the biggest concerns for me, which has been made even stronger with this post, is the lack of customer service from Tattler. Brad from Tattler was downright rude in your previous post on the lids and then not commenting for an article that will be comparing the two types of lids? Why not? Besides a deplorable lack of manners, why would you not want to get the safety information out there to gain more prospective customers?
It sounds like the Jarden people were very forthcoming, and I especially appreciate the information about BPA, both from them and the other links that you provided.
Thanks so much!
CommonSenseIdea says
July 30, 2012 at 10:25 pmIf Brad decides at a later date he’d like to provide additional information, he’s welcome to do so. I wish he had been more cooperative, but hopefully there’s still enough information for people to make an informed decision.
homesteadsimple.com says
August 1, 2012 at 5:15 pmThanks for sharing and going into so much detail. BPA is def. a concern for me and so is formaldehyde! I believe all things should be natural if at all possible and when it concerns the food for my family I want to know if it’s being affected when canning. I see someone mentioned about canning with glass lids?! That is interesting! I’m going to check into that!
Charlotte Honse says
August 7, 2012 at 7:44 pmI tried the Tattler lids this year and didn’t like them, which is unfortunate since I have so many! I think they will be my emergency stash. The main thing I didn’t like was I wasn’t SURE they were sealed. The metal ones pop loudly and are easy to determine afterward both by sound and the indentation. I didn’t hear the Tattler lids pop but perhaps I wasn’t in the room at the time. It wasn’t as easy to tell by tapping if they were sealed either but again that might be because I was expecting the distinct sound of the metal lid. It said to try to open it to see if it is sealed. I did decide that one sounded different from the others and for sure it did open right up. I think I didn’t wipe the rim of the glass well enough but I rarely have that prolem with the others. I also don’t like having to tighten the when I take the out (when they are hot). I might try one more time with rhubarb, because of the acid content, but they aren’t my favorite right now!
CommonSenseIdea says
August 7, 2012 at 9:36 pmCharlotte – thanks for sharing your experience.
Jeannette says
August 22, 2012 at 10:09 pmVery thorough and I would have loved to come across this when I was looking for info on tattler lids. I went ahead and purchased quite of few and though I do prefer the metal lids, I like the convenience of having these in my canning supplies. I also believe in being prepared for whatever may come down the road, (i.e. bad economic times) and I like that I’ve already made the investment in a long term reusable item. I’d hate not being able to can my garden surplus because lids may not be available. One thing that I really dislike is that the first time the tattler lids are put to use they tend to leave a bitter aftertaste at the surface where the food comes in contact with the rubber seal. I don’t have that problem after they’ve been used once or twice – just on a new lid right out of the box.
Trina says
November 1, 2012 at 6:32 pmI love my Tattler lids. took me a couple times to really get the hang of them, now I never have seal failures. I too was concerned about the formaldehyde in their product so I emailed the company directly. They have wonderful prompt customer service. I also posed the scenario to them that is on this post, “A+B=C leftover unbonded formaldehyde….”etc.
This was Tattler’s reply:
“Thank you for your response. First off, your use of the word “speculation” with regards to the presence of formaldehyde is correct. People are speculating about that which they do not know. Formaldehyde is not part of the creation process of our plastic. It is a degradation product. Therefore the A+B=C scenario is not correct. Formaldehyde only manifests itself when very excessive temperatures are reached, i.e. 460 degrees F or greater. Under these circumstances it is likely the molecules will break down and release formaldehyde. However, this is not a reasonable scenario in a home canning environment.
By the way, the chemical smell when you open the box is not the plastic, it is the nitrile rubber rings in the box.”
Tommie Triane says
December 30, 2012 at 2:16 pmThanks so much for that very detailed information, especially all your conclusions which I find to be thoughtful. I knew there was much more to it. Think I’ll stick with the metal lids for now until someone invents the perfect reusable one.
Laura says
January 3, 2013 at 3:40 pmI have used them and they work great. But now that I am opening some of my jars of tomato sauce I put up, I am ending up with stained lids. Yuck! They stated making red lids, but these cost more than the white ones.
Katie says
January 20, 2013 at 12:07 pmI just wanted to mention that Tattler lids are NOT approved for canning by the USDA. They are made of plastic that has been deemed foodsafe, but shouldn’t be used to can.
cunnt says
June 13, 2013 at 5:41 pmFirst hit on google for plastisol:
“Plastisol is a suspension of PVC particles in a plasticizer”
YUM.
Sabrina says
June 21, 2013 at 12:00 amI have been wondering what people did before something like Ball or Kerr lids. If you can’t just go to the store or order online, can you still can? Other than Tattler are there any other reusable forms of canning?
CommonSenseIdea says
June 21, 2013 at 11:27 amBefore the current two piece jar lids, there were glass lids with rubber gaskets and metal clamps, and one piece zinc lids. Before that, there were glass jars with sealing wax and tins lids. Mason jars revolutionized home canning via their relative use of use. A Brief History of Home Canning in America provides more details.
I bought a bulk supply of canning lids, so I am set for quite a while. they easily store for years. Weck jars also have reusable glass lids, but are quite expensive.
phyllis says
December 6, 2014 at 1:59 pmThanks for all the info. My original question from Ball or Kerr was what is the shelf life of their lids? I too have purchased several for a ‘just in case’ scenario. So do you know how long the lids will still be effective or for how many years?
Thank you again for all the information you have researched.
I do also have the Tattlers and I have not come to any conclusion about them as I did not know if I needed to use up the tin lids before the rubber seal on them deteriorated.
Laurie Neverman says
December 6, 2014 at 6:59 pmThis canning lid discussion on Garden Web seems to indicate 5-10 years of shelf life, and this EHow post claims that Jarden Home Brands says 5-10 years if properly stored.
CarlieWolf says
August 1, 2017 at 10:18 amI just read an article that Ball lids now only keep their seal for 12 to 18 months. If that is true then that is unfortunate. 🙁
Laurie Neverman says
August 1, 2017 at 3:20 pmI did some digging about that statement, and it seems like that’s the new “official” statement, based of FDA safe canning recommendations. I suspect that the company feels obligated to put out a hard date keeping close to government guidelines, just to cover their backsides. Otherwise, they could be sued by someone who stored jars for years who ate something and got sick.
The quality of canned food does degrade with age, and it’s best to rotate stock annually. That said, I have kept high acid foods for several years, with Ball lids, and no signs of degradation in the lids or seal. My canning storage area is cool, dry and dark.
For truly long term storage, I’d recommend freeze drying, which can give foods a shelf life of up to 25 years, give or take. See https://commonsensehome.com/home-freeze-drying/ for more information.
Catherine says
September 6, 2015 at 6:20 pmBefore the two-piece metal lids, there were Crown jars, which have a three piece lid much like the Tattler, with a rubber gasket (far thicker and sturdier than Tattler’s), a glass lid and a zinc ring. Like Tattlers, they have to be tightened, loosened, processed and retightened with the same risk of retained oxygen in headspace. THANK YOU for explaining all the problems I’ve had with these over the years! Many Crown jars are still in use, including some in my own kitchen, and the rubber gaskets are still manufactured by Viceroy and sold under the name “Fruit Jar Rings”. I far prefer the modern jars and metal lids, but my Crown jars were free and I am using them while I gradually purchase replacements. I don’t trust them in a pressure canner because of the sealing problem but also their age. Each jar bears a date of manufacture and many of mine are dated in the early 1930s, most of the rest in the late 1940s. I like to think of the women who canned food in these jars during the Depression, World War II, and the postwar recovery.
Laurie Neverman says
September 6, 2015 at 8:21 pmI have some beautiful vintage wide mouth cup jars with zinc lids that don’t lock on. I believe at that time they relied on wax to seal the tops of jellies. What stories these old jars could tell!
wally says
July 9, 2013 at 5:26 pmhi seen on the internet plastic lids are made of #7 plastic and I was told that’s not safe and how safe are the rubber bands nobody says anything about that? I’m new at canning. do you use plastic lids or medal thank you
CommonSenseIdea says
July 9, 2013 at 10:35 pmI prefer the metal ones, but many people do use the plastic.
Laurel says
November 14, 2014 at 9:04 amLaurie,
Thank you for doing the research on the lids. I was looking for reusable lids and came across the plastic ones. After reading your article I think I will go with the Weck glass ones that one of your respondents mentioned.
It sounds like the Tattler ones were made without any materials testing done. It would be very easy for them to determine what if any compounds in the material are being lost during repeated canning processing. A 14 day test is not sufficient to determine anything about what may be lost during normal repeated use.
A simple set up would be to actually can with them. After each use pull one lid off test and run the lid through a gas chromatography (GC) test to determine how much of which compound has been lost from the lid. If something is being lost it is either going into the water bath, atmosphere or food during the processing of the canned item. They should know how many times a lid can be safely reused and whatever that number of times is would tell them how many lids should be included in the test. For example if they can be reused 20 times then 20 jars, lids and seals should be processed in both water bath and pressure cooker for a total of 40 set ups. This way run one would have 20 each type of processing, pull one lid from each for GC analysis after run one, 19 of each type of processing for run #2 then pull one lid from each for GC etc until all have been processed. Ideally this should be done several times with different food types done each time. Batch of 40 the first time done with high acid food (same food for all 40) then repeat another 40 with low acid.
For those reading this that do not know what GC is:
Gas chromatography (GC), is a common type of chromatography used in analytical chemistry for separating and analyzing compounds that can be vaporized without decomposition. Typical uses of GC include testing the purity of a particular substance, or separating the different components of a mixture (the relative amounts of such components can also be determined).
I would also be surprised if the gasket could withstand that many reuses without having taken a set, meaning it no longer would have any compression left. If the gasket can no longer be compressed it is not going to make a good seal. Nitrile rubber is good for high temperature applications, however, where you typically see it used is in rubber hoses that are hooked up and sealed with a clamp and not removed and replaced a bunch of times for this very reason (look under the hood of your car). If it is removed it has the clamp to be used all of the way around to tighten it back down to the outlet it is attached to. In this application if the lid is not being tightened down immediately upon removal from the water bath/pressure cooker there is therefore an opportunity for bacteria to get into the jar.
Just because a government agency does not require MSDS be retained for safety reasons that does not mean a company does not or will not require them from their vendors. How do they know what they are making their product from or that it is safe if they do not review this information at a minimum from a quality and safety perspective.
Thanks again for your work to do this article.
Laurel
Laurie Neverman says
November 14, 2014 at 10:20 amThanks, Laurel, for your thoughtful and intelligent response. I completely agree with your point about repeated use of the gasket and the opportunity for unsafe canning conditions. It would also seem like the company has expanded enough that if they really wanted to get proper testing done, they should be able to afford it. Odds are they would qualify for some type of grant and could hire out the testing done at a university for a reasonable rate. I may be mistaken, but it appears like they don’t even want to consider the option.
Alice McGuinness says
November 30, 2014 at 9:19 pmHello; I was wondering what Laurie is now thinking about the increase in reported seal failures by experienced canners and Jarden’s ignoring their phone calls. Laurie reported that Jarden talked about how long the “Ball” company manufactured canning lids but never answered as how long Jarden had been manufacturing the lids. So no question as to what manufacturing changes had Jarden made had been asked and no answered was possible.
I found your “research” one sided to the point of prejudice and wondered why you would not have included the wecke bottles based on the health problems you discussed, but greatly enhanced regarding tattler lids.
You did not report that Jarden boosts that between all their experienced researchers that have over 70 years experience. 70 yrs experience? My sister and I have more combined canning experience then their professional canning researchers.
You have been remarkable silent on the sealing lid failures of the Jarden-manufactured lids.
Laurie Neverman says
November 30, 2014 at 10:44 pmI haven’t had an increase in Jarden lid failures, so I haven’t contacted Jarden about said failures, nor was I aware of Jarden ignoring home canners. I’m not omnipotent, I can only share what I’ve run into in my own experience. If the failures are recent, they could be due to the changes to make the lids BPA free. This article was published before that happened.
I didn’t include Weck bottles because a) the article was pretty long already b) the Weck bottles are not readily available off the shelf in most areas and c) the Weck bottles are quite expensive.
Since you have so many years of experience, you are welcome to share your lid recommendations. If you’ll note, while I didn’t get into a discussion of the Weck lids in the post, Laurel provides some good information on why she is planning to use Weck jars in the comments.
NancyG says
December 10, 2014 at 9:21 amI like the metal also but they are making the rubber seal smaller and thinner. The box states only good for a year and I sometimes have cans on shelf that are older than that ..just opened a 4 yr old can and it was great! It is a shame to think that the seal only has a YEAR life. I will gladly pay a little more to the greedy Company for a better seal!
Laurie Neverman says
December 10, 2014 at 9:51 amYeah, I regularly have jars that are two seasons old, because we’ll have a bumper crop one year of some produce and then little the next.
Rachel Green says
October 30, 2016 at 9:45 pmI take that to mean a shelf life in the box, unused… rather than once it has sealed on the jar. iow, iow, buy new ones every year instead of using leftovers from the year before.
Laurie, did I understand that you have bought lids in bulk for future use and they have been fine?
Laurie Neverman says
October 30, 2016 at 10:28 pmI purchased 2 cases of lids and have been using them for years. No increased rates of seal failure or any other issues.
Randal Oulton says
February 15, 2015 at 6:41 pm“If I’ve got to get out the door when a pressure canner is still waiting to cool down, I can rush off without having to worry about failed seals. ”
You run the risk of flat sour when you do that.
Joseph Wildhagen says
February 15, 2015 at 8:19 pmIn the early 1950’s we sometimes used wax (paraffin or bee’s wax) to provide a barrier to the lid and extra seal. This provided a gas tight lump on top of the food. I wonder if this would help today for concerns expressed. I got to lick the spoon (treat for a kid making cake, pies, preserves)!
Laurie Neverman says
February 16, 2015 at 12:45 pmWax is no longer recommended. The reason is explained on the Center for Home Preservation website:
Deborah Howarth says
July 30, 2015 at 12:13 pmI thankyou for your informative site, but now I’m unsure as to buy the Tattler lids I seen on sale for $6 a box. I was going to clean them out but now I’m not so sure.
I too have been canning for years and have just bought a pressure canner, I have also seen what can happen when the Tattler lids explode while trying to tighten the lids after removing them from the pressure canner. The other thing is I have noticed too over the years how much thinner the rubber coating has become on the metal lids, compared to today. I always check them before use for bare spots on the rubber, thats how bad they are getting.
Just a thought, but has anyone tried to combine the 2 ? Put a metal lid over a rubber ring ? Any chance something like this could work ? You don’t have to tighten lids after they come out and could hear it pop down, plus they could be both reused. Wishful thinkin …………I guess they are like the big Car companies, want you to keep on buying, so they don”t make them last.
Laurie Neverman says
July 30, 2015 at 4:47 pmThe Tattler lids have potential issues with retained air in the headspace due to lack of flexibility in the lid itself (because of the hard plastic). With the metal lids. the seal is formed as the vacuum is formed inside the jar, and the distinctive “ping” is a sign of that seal. The Tattler seal is formed when the user tightens the lid. It’s an inherent design flaw, and I think layering the lids would only make it worse.
There is a level of protection in the single use lids, in that you are more likely to get a good seal each time because it is undamaged. Although they can’t be reused, they can be recycled. The jars can be reused for years, so for me it’s worth the investment in the lids.
Roberta says
January 4, 2017 at 12:57 pmWhat about vacuum sealing?
Laurie Neverman says
January 4, 2017 at 2:17 pmGiven my higher than normal canning seal failures, I have not tested with vacuum sealing.
Luddite says
March 22, 2019 at 4:45 amThank you for the chemical warning information in the article. It is hard to find this type of info and risks posed – certainly companies are not forthcoming.
The BPA free may be just another scam to get us to buy replacements for everything only to find later that the chemicals used instead (BPS, etc) are equally bad or even worse. Much more is known about the danger of these chemicals now and here is a link about a recent study that alarmed even the scientists doing the study:”BPA isn’t just in bottles — a new report is sounding the alarm over receipts“.
I no longer trust what corporations say about safety and their commitment to customers, as it seems to always be followed by “we had no idea it was poison…” or “it was an unforeseen failure of XYZ that discharged these toxins into drinking water and vital wildlife habitat.”
Scotch guard, Teflon, fire retardant furniture, glyphosate, and thousands of other products were claimed to be ‘perfectly safe for humans’ over he years (as was smoking!) right up until the proof of deadly risks became so overwhelming they could no longer be hidden from the public. Public health agencies and the EPA have been captured by industry and nobody on the public payroll is looking out for us anymore. We’d be completely stupid to keep trusting their blanket assertions about safety.
Laurie Neverman says
March 22, 2019 at 1:36 pmVery little research has been done with respect to long term, low dose exposure on all these chemicals, so only time will tell. I try to pick “less bad” options, but even that choice ins’t always clear.
I read about the BPA in receipts some years ago in the book “Green Barbarians“. It’s amazing how many places with encounter chemical exposure in our every day lives. Just yesterday, I read results from another study that indicated that Teflon-like chemicals (Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)) used in “easy glide” dental floss were migrating into gum tissue and the bloodstreams of users. It never ends.
Luddite says
March 31, 2019 at 12:46 amI found out about the floss issue a few months ago and dug out the old waxed type I had in a drawer. Going to collect all the Glide containers and give them to Costco, etc, along with a piece of my mind for selling it. Researchers have linked Autism with chemicals and there have been some scary incidents reported in Hawaii, where big ag companies have test fields next to homes and schools. Spraying has resulted in medical emergencies sending many of the kids to hospital and causing emergency closures, along with huge increases in linked diseases. Locals successfully got a ban in place, only to be betrayed at a higher government level.
Laurie Neverman says
March 31, 2019 at 12:22 pmEstimates suggest there are between 25,000 and 85,000 different man-made chemicals in use today. They find dozens of toxins in umbilical cord blood, so babies are getting dosed before they are even born. It’s one heck of science experiment.